The time has come to take the ideas for this project forward a little and I've been discussing this with Steve on email. Now we need you all to pitch in with opinions and ideas!

Disclaimer: This is still in the early stages as Rite publishing needs to clear a project or two before starting a new one. That's the official RP line - as a freelance contributor I say pah! Sleep is for the weak

So what is the project? Well the idea is to create an adventure within ]Maptool - a free, open source, cross platform, digital gametable by the guys over at RPTools. Maptool can be used by just the DM in a face to face game to keep track of the adventure and show the DM where the players and monsters are, adjudicate line of sight, keep track of initiative, track hit points and so on. It can also be used collaboratively. In a face to face game this can be done with a projector or a second monitor showing the map from a players perspective and allowing them to move their own characters, make attacks and so on. Finally it can also be used with an internet connection to allow players to connect remotely. I have one online group that I play with once a month or so (they're in the UK, I'm in the US). I have another face to face group that has one person connecting remotely. In both cases it works really well. The idea here would be to create a maptool campaign that contains (at a minimum level) all the maps, the adventure text and some basic automation. It would then be left to the GM to decide how to use it best with their own group.

So where to next?

Well, there's a lot of open speculation that needs to be pinned down. The main questions as I see them are the following, but I think any input on this would be great.

1. How much automation would the project go into?
A simple maptool campaign has maps and tokens for the characters. You move the tokens around like you would move minis on a battlemat. One small step up from that has sight implemented - light sources, lines of sight for all characters, dynamic fog of war that gets revealed as the players explore, that sort of thing. That's easy to do. A further iteration would be to add all the descriptive text to the map so that you click the room number and get the details of the room popping up. At the other end of the spectrum there are campaigns with character sheets, customisable buttons for levelling up, attacks that target creatures, roll the dice, check if it has hit, apply damage and effects and all that jazz. Now that's a good deal more complex and a lot of the coding in that case would have to be bought and paid for by Rite. So the question is how much automation would people use?

2. What kind of adventure?
As a first endeavour something straightforward like a low level dungeon delve is simplest from a construction point of view. On the other hand, what fun is simple? What kind of adventure would people like to see?

Now I have opinions on both of these points and I'll go into these later in this thread. I'm happy to answer questions or even run a short demo of a maptool game session if there's enough interest.

I've just recently been exploring Maptools and like it a lot, and love the idea of incorporating it into the project ... a minor concerns though (and I apologize if I'm misunderstanding something basic).

I'm not sure what other tools (if any) might be required from RPTools in order to increase the functionality you mention, but at the moment Java 1.6 has not been implemented on all Apple products, so the computer I use will run Maptools but not the other tools. Of course I don't except my case to be a deciding factor, but if adding functionality decreases the pool of possible users then I would vote for doing a great basic implementation (lighting, fog of war, token and object designs, etc) then doing something that is more powerful but would limit universality.

Just my .02, and I love the idea. I suspect the more people are aware of the possibility of a Maptools implementation the more parties will be interested in being Patrons. A lot of people seem to be looking for ways to prove the viability of creating more VTT work.

- Gully

Edit: grammar

This adventure will only require maptool to run. Now Tokentool is also useful for creating pogs for players (but that doesn't require java 1.6). Dicetool and InitTool both provide functionality that is mostly in maptool already. The remaining tool is CharacterTool, that allows people to create characters for their game. This is nice, but not necessary. I would suggest that the implementation of the rules in the tokens be simple so that it is easy for a GM or players to create tokens for the party.

- Maps (VBL lines added), tokens, descriptive text - seem to me, to be the baseline for a project like this. This would be a huge timesaver for a DM who uses Maptool, and I would definitely pay for that.

- Attention paid to loading campaign files. Additionally, I would like to see a repository created for Rite Pub. Maptool projects. This would be a big boon.

- Given that Maptool users use different macro systems, I don't necessarily think that macros need to be created.



I think the sky is the limit. IMO, there is nothing about Maptool that creates a barrier to adventure design.

Cheers!

Your assuming that a patron is someone who is automatically an existing maptool user. what happens if you get someone who thinks this project would be a hand holding for learning Maptool (since they are paying you, and as a designer we want someone to learn how to use the content).

Just a thought though, every single patron could end up being a maptool user who already knows what maptool macro they are going to use

Hey Elorebaen, good to see you over here. Those are some very good points.

1. VBL (which is Vision Blocking Layer in the parlance of the maptool forums) is certainly a basic requirements. This allows line of sight to be calculated automatically and allows people to reveal the areas they can see without seeing through walls. Any campaign file will certainly have this built in.

The tokens I have discussed with Steve. There will be tokens for all the creatures in the adventure.

Descriptive text. Yep, I think this is fundamental. It's easy to have a clickable pop up text window when you hit a room number on the map so that you can quickly access read-aloud text. The question is whether you'd also like rules text in here? For example if the room has an ice covered floor wold you reproduce the balance rules here?

2. Campaign load times. This is an important one that I hadn't considered directly. This comes in two parts. Firstly there's the issue of download times. This comes from the fact that most internet connections have nice fast download speeds but low upload speeds. Now when a DM is running a maptool campaign they have all of the graphics for the campaign on their own computer. When you switch to a new map, the players need to download the map, which isn't really an issue, but the DM has to upload it - once for each player. That means that the DM will certainly saturate the upload capacity of his internet connection and it can take a couple of minutes to transfer. A good way to avoid this is to put a bundle of the graphics in a special repository file and place it on a website. That way the file transfer is determined by the player's download speeds, not the DMs upload speeds. Maptool i set up to handle this kind of thing in a straightforward manner, so it would all happen behind the scenes for any user. Setting up a repository on the rite publishing webspace would work well for that (though it might spike the bandwidth a little). Secondly the maps will need to be constructed in such a way that they will run even on low memory machines without killing people's RAM. Essentially that's my problem and I'll keep it in mind when I create the maps.

3. Macros

This is where the issue of automation really comes in. Steve's point is valid that even if some people are maptool users and have their own frameworks built up, the majority are likely not to be. Maptool now has the ability to export and import macro sets pretty easily so I don't see there being a problem in implementing some minimal form of macros and properties. For example in my home game I give monsters a hp property, AC, Fort, Ref and Will. Then the only macros I have for all the monsters are Receive Healing and Take Damage buttons and three save buttons. Then I create a custom attack buttons for those with complex attacks. That allows me to see how many hp each monster has at any given time and quickly check it's AC when I mouse over the token. That speeds things up enormously without requiring huge macro codes. Player tokens are a different issue and are much more likely to be more complex and more user specific.

4. The adventure: This is great news! I certainly think that others should come up with a great adventure with no worries about the technical requirements and then we'll get to put that into reality.

Good point. Now you have me thinking!

It may be a good idea to decide at the outset if this is going to be a "Intro to Maptool" project, which may be a good idea as this would probably generate more support for future Maptool projects (which is good in my book!:) ). I'll comment more about this below.

I can say that this project intrigues me, but I know nothing about maptool.

- Heya Jon! Good to see you as well. I always find it interesting that for as wide/diverse as the 'net is, people with similar tastes end up finding each other in the same places.

- Macros.
The more I think about it, some button macros would probably be the way to go. These could be easily removed if the experienced user didn't want them, and they would be there for the beginning user.

Automating combat options would be a must for the GM, like the ones you mention. The PCs would probably only need some simple dice macros, though some example weapon macros could be presented and a short tutorial on where to enter your stats. All would be pretty straightforward, and with import/export of macrosets easy enough to deal with.

*ponders* This really could be ultra-cool!!

When I discovered Maptool 2 years ago, it was a complete gaming revelation/revolution for myself and my old DnD buddies (no one lives near each other any longer). I'm excited to see a project like this which I believe will show others the awesomeness of Maptool (or VTTs in general).

@deinol: Then this is the thread for you! Essentially maptool does all the things that the WotC gametable was promising to do (apart from 3D) as well as a lot more. Essentially it replicates a dry erase board and allows players to move their minis around. This can be around a real world game table or over the internet with something like skype to allow for voice chat. It's a handy way to play. Now no-one has ever created a commercial adventure specifically for maptool so this would be an interesting first.

I've been using the program for 3 years and it's been great. It also gets updated regularly and has a very responsive developer and an active community. An introduction to maptool campaign would be pretty cool and has a good chance of getting a large take up. Steve, would this be an AE project or a PF one? I'm not sure how much inclusion (automation) the PF licence (or the AE one for that matter) allow for.

@elorebean: Yep, the net is a small place.

For those that browse other forums, I usually use torstan as a profile name.

I'm interested. Especially in the "play once a month; play remotely" option. How does that work out in play? What if the players...go off the map?

It works out well in play. My group have been rumbling on for a couple of years this way and they're all at 15th level now. So they certainly do unexpected things.

I tend to make sure I have three scales of maps: a large scale map of the country, a regional map of the area and a series of encounter maps. When the action is general - such as 'we go to this place in town to find out whether the lowlifes in the docks know anything' then I use the regional map. I just move a token around that represents the whole party. Then I can describe the locations without needing a map - just as you would around a table. I only switch to a battlemap when you need to have tactical movement. 90% of the time, that only happens when they get into a fight that I've already planned and so I have the map.

This approach stops players from assuming all encounters have a map, and so it stops them from guessing that if there is no map then it's not important. It also gives them the freedom to explore anywhere they want, as they should.

In the remaining situations where they do go off the map and get themselves into a fight, then you need some options to hand. I find that it's handy to have a generic Inn, a generic wilderness map and a generic city street to hand just in case. With those extra maps at hand if you need them you can quickly run a spontaneous encounter without breaking the flow of the game.

What jon said I would just add that, for me, it is the same as face to face playing. If the players go off the beaten path (ie what you have prepared) you either simply describe, or breakout whatever maps you have. Works just like the physical gaming table.

Okay, so enough talking for now. I thought I'd post a couple of links to videos and images of maptool in play so you can see what the gamplay looks like. These are all actual screenshots, so everything you see can be done. Note that a few of these are with older versions of the tools so there may be a few variations in the look of the different videos.

A demonstration of vision at work:
http://rptools.net/dorpond/demos/ClickV ... onVid.html

A quickstart tutorial for players:
http://rptoolstutorials.net/videos/Play ... Start.html

Lots more maptool video tutorials for the curious:
http://rptoolstutorials.net/maptool.htm

An example of maptool being used with a projector on a table with minis:
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1339130

Any forward movement on this project?

Yes, we just got official permission to use RPTOOLS and Maptools compatibility logos in our advertising and so forth.

I am working on a pitch to paizo as the Pathfinder Compatiblity Licence as this Caveat:

"The license granted hereunder is expressly limited to use of the Compatibility Logo in printed books, electronic books, and freely available websites. Anyone seeking a license for any other use should contact Paizo directly, at licensing@paizo.com."

Jonathan Roberts has agreed to sign on as the Developer and the Cartography
Ben Mcfarland has agreed to sign on as our Designer

I still need to nail down a interior artist, token artist, an editor.

Jonathan could do the graphic design but I may also look for a layout artist in order to lighten his load as I know the perils of too much on ones plate (plus he will still have other cartography work on other projects).

Awesomeness!

A small update - we now have a token artist and interior artist signed on. Discussions are now moving forward to getting a nice juicy pitch together to launch the patron drive. I'll post more here as we get further along.

If anyone has any particular things they'd like to see within the scope of the project then feel free to post them here. It's never too early to begin influencing things

We had bounced some things back and forth above, so I don't want to repeat those, but I would like to put in a vote for using the Pathfinder rules.

Great to hear this is moving forward.

Absolutely. Hopefully we'll know soon about the licensing.

As for the ideas for the project, that's all been taken on board. I've also (quietly) started mentioning the project on the rptools boards. There's a thread over there that was recently started which asked what level of interactivity people like in their maps. It seemed like a good place to start:

http://forums.rptools.net/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11070

Interesting read too.

Just a heads up I got the OK today to use



and we aldready have approval to use the



I am a very happy publisher.

Expect to hear more about:
The Breaking of Forstor Nagar,
City of Grinding Ice

Woohoo!

Game on.

Total awesomeness! I should be signed up within the week.

Been awhile since I signed on to a project...this one just might get me back in. I love me some reviewing and editing.

Well it would be great to have you on board. Have you vtt'ed before?

Also, I'd like to gauge interest. Would people be interested in a demo of the software we'll be using?